DAVID SPEERS: Welcome back to the program and welcome to our panel. I'm pleased to say that in sitting weeks for parliament, they're only nine of them left this year, now that we know this election date - but in sitting weeks.
We're going to be joined by two of let's call them some of the most sensible minds in the parliament. Gary Gray is the Special Minister of State for the Government and Arthur Sinodinos is the Shadow Parliamentary Secretary to the Opposition Leader. Welcome to you both.
Now, I want to start with what has been an interesting week or so in politics, even before parliament returned today. Firstly, Julia Gillard deciding to name the election date. I know this has been talked about a lot. Gary Gray a lot of your colleagues are scratching their heads about this. What do you think and particularly as a former party strategist, is it a smart idea to give away that advantage?
GARY GRAY: I think it's the right thing to do. Look, you go through these debates the whole time. When you should announce and what you should announce. And I think for good reasons, for government reasons and good governance reasons, getting the date out there was the right thing to do. We've got fixed term elections in most states and the territories. Australians are used to it and so putting the date out there, given the very small number of options, I have not only no difficulty with it, I'm a supporter of it.
DAVID SPEERS: What did you think of this decision, Arthur Sinodinos?
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Well, on one level I thought to myself, well, they're obviously looking for a news hook, because the speech itself was really reiterating, you know, the policy framework and whatever, so I thought…
DAVID SPEERS: They certainly got the news hook right.
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Yeah, they certainly got that and then, of course, there's the argument that the government are doing this to say, well you know, we're not going to play politics until the actual campaign and now you Mr Abbott must show us all your wares. If that was intention I don't think that's going to work. I mean, Tony is going to be out there delivering policy and doing costings at the right time but, you know, we're not producing a fight back mark three tomorrow just because Julia says we've got to make policy.
DAVID SPEERS: So he's not in campaign mode, is what you're saying, not until later?
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Look, I think this parliament, from my observations, has been in campaign mode since the last election.
DAVID SPEERS: But he's - if he…
ARTHUR SINODINOS: I don't think that's changed.
DAVID SPEERS: Yeah, but if he's not…
ARTHUR SINODINOS: But what I'm saying is…
DAVID SPEERS:. going to release his policies until close to the election, it's not really a campaign.
ARTHUR SINODINOS: But what I'm saying is, yeah, we're really not in that part of the election campaign. And you've got to remember as far as the public are concerned, a lot of them won't actually focus on policy until closer to the campaign itself. What this perversely could have done, it's a bit like New Sales Wales. You have a fixed term and then if people have given up on a government at a certain stage, they then get very angry that - we've still got to wait further to knock them out. And I think within the business community also there would have been a feeling of, well, maybe she's trying to provide certainty but really the best certainty would be an early election and a decisive result.
DAVID SPEERS: But this suggestion…
GARY GRAY: Can I just make that pointer, Dave. The idea of an early election, one before June 30th would create constitutional chaos. We'd have to have another election…
DAVID SPEERS: Put the houses out of sync.
GARY GRAY: Yes, we'd have to another election in a year's time. Now, I think it's very necessary for we as parliamentarians, despite our differences, to have great concern for stability and a consistent approach to how governance is run. And since 1998 we've had elections consistently in the last quarter of the third year. That's no bad thing.
DAVID SPEERS: But just getting back to this argument about whether we are in a campaign now or not, the Coalition today is saying that we're in - we're effectively in caretaker mode, which should trigger various things. Are you serious about that, Senator?
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Well, we're not in a formal caretaker mode but by what Julia Gillard did the other week, she was really putting herself closer into that sort of frame and this allows the Opposition to make the argument that, well, you know you've given us the election date. Maybe you should be consulting the Opposition more on major appointments.
DAVID SPEERS: But it's a bit cheeky though, really, isn't it?
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Well, well…
DAVID SPEERS: You're not seriously saying we're in caretaker mode?
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Well look, the role of the Opposition is I think to tease out the implications…
DAVID SPEERS: To tease…
ARTHUR SINODINOS:…of what some of these announcements are about and no, we're not in caretaker mode but it’s a reasonable argument to say, well, you're telling us now there's a fixed election date. Maybe you should also be more - if you're taking the politics out of this year, right up until the campaign, maybe more bipartisan about major appointments, right? Because you are potentially trying to bind the future government.
DAVID SPEERS: The thing that also struck…
GARY GRAY: Could I just…
DAVID SPEERS: Sure, sure.
GARY GRAY: Senator Sinodinos has managed Prime Ministers and governments through caretaker in 1998, in 2001, in 2004 and in 2007 and when Senator Sinodinos says we're not in caretaker mode, I think that's an important point to be made. He's been there many times. He's managed governments through it and he knows and understands that convention. When it cuts it and when it doesn't. It's a good point to make.
DAVID SPEERS: Okay, we've got agreement on that at least. The other…
ARTHUR SINODINOS: All that I'm saying - if this politics of this year is Julia Gillard saying we're only going to debate policy right up until the campaign and then leave it to politics, we are saying, well, maybe in some of these areas there should be more bipartisanship around major issues and appointments.
DAVID SPEERS: Let's look at some policy issues, because that's what I really do want to focus on. We're going - we're already seeing a battle over superannuation in particular. Do you think the government is going to be playing with fire here if it does touch superannuation? A lot of people put…
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Yeah.
DAVID SPEERS: …work so hard to put their money in there so they don't have to call on the taxpayer when they retire. This could be a sensitive area that's going to spook a lot of people, Minister.
ARTHUR SINODINOS: I don't…
GARY GRAY: Superannuation is a sensitive area and governments only tread very, very carefully. You know, Senator Sinodinos and I are extraordinary as parliamentarians in that we're on exactly the same superannuation arrangements as other members of the community. Our own contributory schemes. So we know…
DAVID SPEERS: That's because…
GARY GRAY: …what that feels like.
DAVID SPEERS: That's because you've come in since the Mark Latham/John Howard moment of 2004.
GARY GRAY: That's right.
DAVID SPEERS: But will you - so you're saying you have an understanding of community concerns over this. But it does sound like the governments about to hack into the superannuation savings of middle and higher income earners.
GARY GRAY: What we do will be carefully thought through and done in the context of the Budget and the sustainability of the Budget. Now, that's important.
DAVID SPEERS: So it's not sacrosanct anyway?
GARY GRAY: It's not for me to make policy for our ministers first superannuation. I'm not about to get into that area. But what I am about to say is that the superannuation industry, as it's currently structured, is largely the creation of past Labor governments. It's something that we take seriously and something that we would make changes to only after very careful consideration.
DAVID SPEERS: Senator, the Coalition also has to pay for everything it promises and Tony Abbott has today told the party room, as I understand, he'll increase Defence spending, medical research funding…
ARTHUR SINODINOS: No, no, he won't increase Defence funding.
DAVID SPEERS: Sorry, there won't be any cuts - any further cuts to…
ARTHUR SINODINOS: No net cuts to Defence spending.
DAVID SPEERS: No net cuts to Defence or…
ARTHUR SINODINOS: A redirection within Defence, yeah.
DAVID SPEERS: …medical research, yeah. So you can't find money there. Is superannuation really to be completely off limits as you try and get back into surplus?
ARTHUR SINODINOS: We have made a couple of announcements about areas of super linked to the mining tax that would not…
DAVID SPEERS: Yeah, put a lower - yes.
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Yeah, would not proceed. And I think we're being very straightforward with people saying that if it's not affordable we shouldn't proceed with it. The point about super is the feedback from the industry over the last few years is that the pace of change has not slackened but if anything increased in terms of changes in that space. And they're getting sick and tired of that. And I think they are reflecting what people think.
And the debate we're going to have is that if people think a million dollar nest egg, which gives you about fifty thousand dollars year in super is high income or even some version of medium income, you're going to be hitting a lot more people than I think Labor really wants to hit, if its narrative here is meant to be a class war narrative where they're robbing from the rich to pay for the poor in terms of Gonski and the National Disability Insurance Scheme.
DAVID SPEERS: Another issue, we heard Nick Xenophon earlier talking about betting on politics and the fact that there was a bit of a plunge it seems on the election date before - in the hours before the PM announced it last week. What do you both think? Senator, first to you, should there be a ban or some tighter laws around betting on politics?
ARTHUR SINODINOS: Well look, I'd have to say if there was a plunge just before the Prime Minister was making her announcement, that's something that should be investigated on its own merits. If someone is using their position within an office or within the organisation, right, because that's a classic piece of inside information that would not be available to many people.
On the broader issue it comes down to, when do you really know what the election result is going to be? In some elections you don't know the - well, you can't really predict the result til the morning or even the afternoon of the actual vote. So the idea that there's inside information available, some is more informed than others, i.e. users polling, but it's not clear to me that that's really a major issue.
DAVID SPEERS: Minister?
GARY GRAY: Look, I don't bet on politics.
DAVID SPEERS: Glad to hear it.
GARY GRAY: I don't bet full stop. I'm fascinated by people who think that there should even be a betting market. As I understand the story and Senator Xenophon put out his press release with his usual flair and a lot of air pumped into it. It's not clear exactly what happened, so let's wait and see. Let's have - Sportsbet is I think is the organisation…
DAVID SPEERS: Yeah.
GARY GRAY: …at question? Now, let's see what they have to say. As I understand it there were no more than ten bets placed and measured into tens or hundreds of dollars. It's not clear to me the time at which they took down their betting site and for what purpose and it's not clear to me just what the allegation is. Now, Nick has pointedly referenced in his press release that he's not making any allegation…
DAVID SPEERS: So at first…
GARY GRAY: …against ministerial staff.
DAVID SPEERS: So it's up to Sportsbet to investigate this. There won't be any - you're not talking to Sportsbet or launching any sort of investigation.
GARY GRAY: I - my office attempted to speak to them today, to establish simply the fact pattern. And certainly we wouldn't and couldn't in our administerial code of contact and our staff code of contact would not allow for profit hearing from government decisions.
So at that end of it, there is a concern, but at the other end of it, let's just understand just exactly what happened when and where, and to whom and at what time.
DAVID SPEERS: Just a final issue quickly; electoral funding reform, something that you're working on as special minister of state in the coming months. You want to make more donations disclosed. So lower the limit at which donations have to be disclosed to I think one thousand dollars. Is that still the plan, and where is that up to?
GARY GRAY: Well, the bill that's currently in the Senate has a thousand dollars. I'm currently in the process of discussions with the parties...
DAVID SPEERS: Why is this taking so long?
GARY GRAY: Because these are substantial reforms, and the process for doing it in my view has to be a process whereby the parties of government are comfortable in doing what we're doing so we get a sustainable solution.
The other part of it David, is that when we look particularly at the disclosures that were made last week, we see a smaller number of organisations and entities making political contributions and they are getting bigger, and in my view, the integrity and stability of our system is therefore better placed if we can find another pillar of support.
In my view, that should be funding from the Commonwealth for the administrative purposes...
DAVID SPEERS: of running an election.
GARY GRAY: …of our political parties.
DAVID SPEERS: Okay, and Senator, how will the liberals respond to that?
ARTHUR SINODINOS: I think there's been a willingness to discuss the issues, but there's some wariness as well. We want to make sure that all parties, as in third parties as well, including unions, get treated in, for want of a better phrase, a competitively neutral way because the issue has always been this perception that somehow we're in the pocket of the corporates and the rest of it. But Labor has some pretty big sources of cash that come its way through the unions.
So it's making sure we're on all fours on this, and transparency's always important.
GARY GRAY: And I agree with that.
DAVID SPEERS: Sounds as though there could be some agreement potentially on that. I'll believe it when I see it though. We're going to have wrap things up...
ARTHUR SINODINOS: We don't have a…
GARY GRAY: No, Arthur and I certainly don't always disagree.
DAVID SPEERS: I like this dynamic. We'll be talking next week, so I'm looking forward to it already. Special Minister of State, Gary Gray and the Shadow Parliamentary Secretary to the Opposition leader, Arthur Sinodinos. Thank you very much. Now, for viewers in New Zealand, New Zealand News is next. Right here in Australia though, PM Agenda continues.